Episode 4: What Vehicle Lightweighting Means for Collision Repair

Ryan and 埃德温教皇, principal analyst at IHS Markit, discuss the growing use of lightweight materials in new automobile design and construction. While these alternatives are helping to improve safety, boost fuel economy and reduce costs, t嘿 are also creating new challenges affecting insurance claims and the delivery of proper and safe repair.

瑞安Mandell: Welcome back to the Mitchell Collision 播客. 我是你的主人, 瑞安Mandell, and I am very excited to have with me today my guest, 埃德温教皇, who is a principal analyst at the research firm IHS Markit—focusing primarily on automotive lightweighting. Welcome, 埃德温, how are you doing?

埃德温·波普: I’m doing great, Ryan. Thanks for having me.

瑞安Mandell: It's absolutely my pleasure. I had the chance to hear 埃德温 speak at the Automotive Lightweight Materials Conference a few weeks ago back in Detroit. 和 he did an amazing job presenting some really interesting content around where the industry is headed, the use of lightweight materials and how that's impacting really the entire automotive industry. So we had a chance to talk there and I thought it would be great to have him provide some insights to our listeners. 和 so before we jump 正确的 in, 埃德温, why don’t you just give everyone a little bit of background on who you are, kind of what you've done in the industry, and what your role is at IHS Markit.

埃德温·波普: 太棒了. So I'm an absolute gearhead. There's no other way to say it other than 15W-40 is probably running through my veins 正确的 now. I’ve spent a lot of time personally on car stuff. 专业, I didn't start automotive until 2015 when General Motors hired me on and I started working on, 假设, the last couple of variants of the seventh gen Corvette. I was around for the launch of Grand Sport and I was around for the launch of the ZR1—and then through the entire design cycle, through the manufacturer validation builds for the eighth generation Corvette. 和 I've been with IHS Markit now for almost four years this coming fall and I focus a lot on body in white out of my material research. 但 I keep a keen eye on the other material research kind of initiatives that have to do with maybe R&D efforts or things in chassis or even some of the electrification material stuff.

瑞安Mandell: 太棒了. 和 just for everyone's clarification, because 我认为 the term body in white is not used as much in the collision industry. So maybe just give a quick definition of what you mean by body in white components.

埃德温·波普: 好吧. So automotive OEMs will call it body in white if it essentially goes through the body shop. Things like a crossbar beam that are installed afterwards, 你, 假设, subframe for your engine transmission rear differential aren't included in that. 但, 基本上, 如果你去, 假设, an enthusiast and go the shell, 底盘, and 你 looking to get that project car. Those are some of the terms 你 going to see in the wider industry for what we're calling body in white. 和 in this scenario, we're not including the plastic trim, any of the gutter trim on the top, the front fascia, the rear fascia, 摇臂覆盖, 正确的? This is 传统上 your stamped mild steel components, 你们知道, that's moving over to aluminum and composites and so on.

瑞安Mandell: 是的. So pretty much kind of what we would think of in, 你知道, the collision repair space as more of the major component parts. So, 你知道, 抽油烟机, 挡泥板, 门, 季度面板, 甲板上盖子, 屋顶板, those are the kind of things 你 talking about?

埃德温·波普: 是的. B-pillar, shock towers, rocker panels, 正确的? For our own internal research purposes, we don't consider like a truck frame is actually part of the body in white. We consider it as part of 底盘, actually, so part of the suspension architecture. 但 we do keep an eye on that 太, 正确的, because those are changed into higher strength steel.

瑞安Mandell: 肯定. So talk about why you've seen automakers really moving to these lighter weight materials. 你知道, clearly, 我认为 fuel economy is one of the big drivers. Does that continue to be the primary driver of why OEMs are moving more of their substrate construction to these lighter weight components?

埃德温·波普: 我认为 it's a double-edged sword, 正确的? So you've got fuel economy considerations. 但, ultimately, another way to think about this is efficiency. 和 what 我的意思是 by that is cost efficiency as well. 正确的? Automakers keep adding more and more content to these cars, whether it's some ten-way power adjustable seat or the touch screen in your head unit or more speeds to your transmission or, 无论. You need to offset that somewhere, 正确的? So, 传统上, automakers have really looked at body in white is how t嘿 can kind of offset the additional content that t嘿're adding to these vehicles and maintain like an EPA test weight class. 但 the best-in-class solutions that are available on the market 正确的 now for lightweighting are both at the same time. T嘿're a cost reduction activity at the same time as 你 actually reducing weight of the component. 和 when that happens, it's very easy to get kind of all the oars rowing in the same direction in these large organizations to make the change to a new material.

瑞安Mandell: 和 我认为 a lot of times t嘿're actually even able to improve crashworthiness in some instances. 我的意思是, I read this study, 我认为 it was from Ohio State University, talking about how a high-grade aluminum will actually absorb more crash energy than mild steel will simply just because of the properties of the metal and how it disperses that energy.

埃德温·波普: It's that on top of, 假设, crash zones, 正确的? So depending on the architecture of a new vehicle, some of the distances where we used to have a solid foot to two to sometimes even three before you get cabin intrusion are changing whether 你 putting different items in there or, 例如, 电动汽车趋势, 正确的? Your crash zone is shortening. 正确的? So it is a matter of that impulse mitigation and making it to where it doesn't hurt an occupant, but within that distance without creating a problem—either intrusion into the cabin or whatnot.

瑞安Mandell: 正确的. 绝对. 和 you mentioned aluminum. You mentioned the composites. 你知道, we've seen manufacturers move into this, 你知道, more of a mixed material approach: this suite of materials. Where do you see that headed in terms of what is going to be the dominant material being used? Do you think aluminum is that material? Or do you think it's moving in a different direction?

埃德温·波普: It's not a winner-take-all market. That’s the tough news for anybody listening here that’s a repairer. 甚至还有, 你知道, in the EV market where people think aluminum is great for the whole battery enclosure. Our market analysts are seeing a split between the lid and the tray. So the top of the battery pack might be one material and the bottom half, maybe a second material. You look at rear liftgate and glass reinforced thermoplastics are really starting to ramp up. While you still see a front bumper beam, 你知道, extruded aluminum really works well for that particular application. So when we're looking at this, there are some, 假设, winners in certain sections of the car. 和 it's really going to be hard for some of these players to oust something like I call it gigapascal steel. So any hot stamped, press hardened are these very high grade steels that OEMs are pushing all the way up until like 2500 is where I've seen the highest R&D numbers hit 正确的 now. This is like beyond the old school boron and martens site kind of door crash beam because that's where it entered the market for cars. 和 so your A-pillars and B-pillars are really focusing on this material to where there's even a couple of models that went all aluminum and t嘿 kind of backpedal a little bit because t嘿 found out that's really a good material for that spot.

瑞安Mandell: 和 我认为 when, 你知道, you mentioned the challenge for collision repair shops and having to deal with all these mixed materials, thinking about the 2500 in terms of that rating for ultra-high strength steel. 我的意思是, 你 not repairing that kind of material, 正确的? 我的意思是, no, there’s nothing you could do to be able to maintain that structural integrity.

埃德温·波普: No. 和 some of this stuff is it's not just the material rating anymore, Ryan. It's also the construction methodology. This year, the U.S. Steel Association in their Great Designs in Steel, actually featured a Tier one supplier that's now taking tube and essentially hot pouring it like a balloon and a set of dyes. 和 this 传统上 with two stamped parts that have a flange here and, 你知道 on either side of my fingers here and maybe some adhesive and some welds down it. 正确的? 和 these guys are removing all of that. 所以在过去, 你可能有, 你知道, really been able to spot weld, kind of drill out these guys and replace a whole part maybe on a car. 但 now if 你 going to turn that into a single component, this changes the name of the game for that individual spot.

瑞安Mandell: 是的. Kind of thinking about, 你知道, for a lot of GM vehicles—and I’m sure 你 certainly familiar with those—when 你 replacing a quarter panel, 你 buying a unit side in many, 许多情况下, but 你 still able to section out the quarter panel in most applications today. 但 what 你 talking about is essentially losing that ability to be able to section in some of these pieces that are currently welded in.

埃德温·波普: 你可能会. One of the materials I'm keeping a keen eye on, SGA, is one of the first adopters. Ford adopted previously, but t嘿're calling it steel laminated sheet. There's an aluminum laminated sheet version, 太, but it's like an ice cream sandwich with metal on the outside and polymer on the inside. It's known as quiet steel, smart steel. There's all these trademark brands and different kind of formulations between what the cookie looks like and what the cream filling looks like in the ice cream sandwich metaphor. 正确的? 和 I'm sure that the market will have some differentiation there, whether or not it's like honeycomb or something odd. 正确的? 但 if you imagine that from a repair standpoint and, 你知道, mind you this is in a roof structure rail in a currently produced car. 和 if you imagine that as an outer panel, well, what do I do? 我的意思是, I've got aluminum foil thin sheet on either side of this polymer. I'm not doing a weld and kind of just grind pack on this. That's not going to work for a quarter, 正确的? So where are you going to fix this? Are you going to, maybe I don't know, bridge a gap and leave a gap between these panels and back it with some type of fiberglass matrix or something? This isn't going to be, 你知道, just bought up to two pieces, 钢焊接起来, 磨它, clean body filler and paint it. It's going to need some innovation. 和 that particular kind of set up is pretty cheap, 正确的? 正确的 now it's about $5 a kilogram for OEMs to embrace this. That's kind of, 假设, the fence that's out there for OEMs. Part dollars per kilogram is commonly held is like the dividing line between things that are 太 expensive for adoption and stuff that, 你知道, ultimately gets into vehicles. 和 there's some solutions that go negative in this scale as that product line advances. 我认为 that $5 per kilogram goes down to a dollar or less, depending on raw materials and how these guys form it. So, and then I look at a body side, you can only go so thin, 正确的? There's going to have to be something if t嘿 want to keep the lightweighting trend going. 和 this is like one of those materials with pull and replace, 正确的? So if I'm an OEM, I can take the dye that I've got today, pull out the mild steel, slap this stuff in it, change my spot-weld parameters a little bit and move on with life and save, 你知道, 10磅, 20 pounds or more pretty quickly.

瑞安Mandell: How much do you think automakers are considering collision repair in that design and engineering phase? Is there a dedicated point during the engineering process where this comes into play or is it kind of an afterthought?

埃德温·波普: Depends on the OEM. 正确的? 我认为 we talked about this a little bit at the conference. Which is like there is an OEM here in the US that essentially doesn't build it all into it. 大型铸件, building a battery pack into your vehicle architecture itself, you’re not repairing that. I'm not going to, 正确的? I'm all about throwing a car in the rotisserie and welding and everything. 但, 你知道, that scares me halfway up the street personally. 和 I'm not a collision repair expert. On the other end, there are some considerations. 你知道, in the engineering program I worked on, that was part of the consideration at a fundamental level that prohibited certain material collection, joining strategy, and even how we assembled the vehicle was to ensure that collision repairs wouldn't be insane. 例如, if you look at like a Ferrari or a Lotus compared to a Corvette. There's a few instances where you get this clamshell construction, these big fiberglass components, and you hit something at like five miles an hour. The fiberglass cracks. 和 then your Lotus is on the marketplace with a salvage title because of some cracking in the fiberglass for a fender bender. 和, 你知道, that is a consideration for a designer. GM, Ford and other OEMs that are mainstream definitely look at this stuff pretty early on when it's kind of like, 假设, on the drawing board for the car.

瑞安Mandell: 我认为 that’s really helpful to know because 我认为 there's a lot of people in our industry, we don't get to see, 你知道, behind that curtain. We don't get to see, 你知道, where this comes into play for automakers. So 我认为 knowing that for a lot of companies, that is pretty crucial to that design and to the engineering steps and the decisions being made. 我认为这是, 希望, reassuring to some people knowing that t嘿're actually taking into account.

埃德温·波普: 正确的. 和 I guess the assuaging of the audience here would essentially be, 还记得, people will have to build these cars on factory lines. We're not to the point unless 你 like our rival—which is a commercial vehicle at this point—building these highly automated assembly lines yet. 和, 你知道, UAW is probably going to fight here in Michigan to make sure that people are still employed in factories. 和 in a lot of scenarios, it is more efficient to have a skilled labor force than attempt to automate the whole thing. 我认为, 你知道, there's some disruption potential and there would be some players move around in niche sectors. 但, 是的, there is a human touch element and to me, 你知道, watching the Tesla design cycle for this stuff, when he really wanted to automate almost the entire assembly line and then had to backpedal away from it and realize that people are important in building cars. So if it has to be built by a person, it'll probably be somewhat repairable by a person in certain circumstances. 正确的?

瑞安Mandell: 这是 a good point, because 我认为这是 something we often forget, is that this is not an automated process. 你知道, we see pictures of the robots doing all this welding and things like that. 但 we tend to and, 你知道, 包括我自己, we tend to forget that this is a very people-reliant process that relies on humans to actually do a lot of this work. So 我认为 that is helpful to 还记得 when we're thinking about collision repair and we're thinking about what goes into how these vehicles are designed and how t嘿're ultimately constructed and assembled. 你知道 what I'm thinking about in terms of all these different materials and, 你知道, you said there's no one material that's going to really dominate. 你知道, 我认为这是 the challenge for collision repairers. 和, so many we've been kind of hearing about these OEM-certified networks and the growth of these. 这是, 你知道, that’s definitely something that 我认为 we're going to see continue in the marketplace. 但 as a body shop, how do I start to strategize around this? How do I build my business and insulate it from these changing materials and really start to put myself in the best position to capitalize on this shift really just away from my old steel?

埃德温·波普: So 你 hitting the nail on the head here, Ryan. 和 我认为 no matter where 你 sitting in the world and even my competitors will agree with me on this one, the name of the game is ripping mild steel out of these vehicles. 和 it's to the point that I've talked with some steelmakers and said, 嘿, you guys are talking about production limitations for your line and you have secondary products for like heavy equipment stuff. Why aren’t you using higher grade steel for this and literally changing your foundry over towards these higher grades of steel across the marketplace? So I just want to put that nugget kind of out there before I answer your question. 但 我认为 the best way to handle that is to start learning how to be a little bit more of a specialist and a little less of a generalist. There are a few changes coming in, like plastic fascia that will probably help with repairability. 和 there's also a driver on another side for recycling where you may not see some fascias even want to be repaired anymore because, 你知道, recyclers are starting to stand up their capabilities of processing fascia materials and other materials. So that's a fundamental change, 我认为, in the industry. Is it better to pull and replace and send it off to a recycler or is it better to just spend the man hours? That's going to become a pinch point for anybody across the entire value chain. 和 then 我认为 there's some specialty tests and equipment, things that'll be out there. 例如, if I run into my barn and have a problem with a crack in aluminum, I'm going to go ahead and do like a penetration test, which is a dye and a spray and a whole thing. 正确的? Fairly simple and straightforward, but it's a skill set. 和 once you start honing in on this stuff, as we see the material count continue to raise in the auto industry, 我认为 we're going to see people start saying, hold on a second, I'm good at this over here. I don't necessarily know if I want to play over here. I don't want to buy the equipment. My manpower is really good at this over here. Let me figure out how I can kind of hone it in a little bit. 和 it may not be brand only is what I would submit to you. The trend that I'm personally seeing and this is on a global basis, 正确的? So this is North America, 欧洲, Greater China—and we're working on looking to Japan and Korea as well. 但 realistically, there's some behavior that linked themselves to where a vehicle competes and what it costs, what type of vehicle it is to where we see some clumping of material choices within what are 传统上 called segments, but t嘿're not quite behaving like A segment, B segment and so on. It's the mix of like price, vehicle size and customer base. 和 you'll see these little groups of vehicles kind of having these similar mixtures, and it may be across brands.

瑞安Mandell: 有趣的. 是的, 我认为 certainly a challenging environment, but not one that is insurmountable, 你知道, and 我认为 that looking at more specialization and really seeing where do you have the 正确的 technicians, the 正确的 training, the 正确的 equipment to where you can compete and be best in class in that lane that is most profitable for you.

埃德温教皇. I agree with that one, Ryan. Especially when you start dealing with people who are ultimately your customers—not the insurer, but the owner of the vehicle is who 你 dealing with. 和 there are behaviors and expectations in these groups of people. 正确的? I'm the type of guy I’ve got no problem with, 你知道, going into a dirty place or anything like that. 但, 你知道, if I'm in like a G-Wagon or some other, 你知道, 六位数汽车, I might not be 太 happy about dust in the body shop. 但 that's normal, 正确的? So, 你知道, these are things depending on how you face your audience, how 你 dealing with your clientele, that maybe are some considerations for these body shops if t嘿're really business savvy. 和 I can make a really good metaphor here of just pit stops. So you go to a gas station and there's actually market diversity in gas stations. Next time you go on a road trip, check it out. You'll have some gas stations that are kind of rundown. What's going on here? There's maybe a handful of, 假设, mainstream products. 和 then you'll go into the far other end of a gas station that's been newly built, has LED backlit mirrors in the place. 和 you've got like walls of different products and everything else to where 你 wondering what's the dividing line between the thing in a grocery store? 和 I would encourage these business owners to think about it in that light of starting to know your customer base a little bit better and figuring out who you want to serve and having that customer focus at the forefront of how you decide this.

瑞安Mandell: 绝对. Well, 埃德温, I can't thank you enough for your time today. I really appreciate you spending this time with us and providing these insights. 我认为 it's a really interesting perspective for folks in our industry. 和 I'm very grateful for your insights, for the research that you do and for sharing all that with us.